Brands That Command

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Streaming here

Brand equity matters, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s top of mind for every company or consumer. So, as a DTC leader, how much energy should you put towards creating it? In this week’s episode of Commerce Chefs, Tom and Kyle chat with three experts that have built incredible brands by building long-lasting relationships with their customers. Meet Aaron Powell, the customer-service obsessed Founder of Bunch Bikes and a successfully funded Shark Tank superstar, and Steve Miller, the VP and Executive Creative Director at Fuse Create who's worked with iconic brands like Air Miles, Hilton, and Canadian Tire. Plus, welcome back Matt Taylor, Director of Consumer Insights at Jamieson Vitamins who you may remember from episode 07, “Resurrecting Retail.” They discuss the importance of brand equity, the recipe you need to successfully create it, and how providing magic to your customers will always generate ROI.

LEARN MORE ABOUT OUR GUESTS:

Aaron Powell, Founder of Bunch Bikes
Steve Miller, VP and Exec Creative Director at Fuse Create
Matt Taylor, Director of Insights at Jamieson Vitamins

Transcript

Kyle Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom, check this out. 

Tom I see a very expensive cooking device that you probably won't ever use. Do you even know what an air fryer is, buddy? 

Kyle No, but I'm going to get it. I need it. 

Tom Why? 

Kyle Oh, I saw it on Instagram? 

Tom OK, like a sponsored ad. Wait, what have you been searching for? To be retargeted for an air fryer. 

Kyle No, no, no. In my morning routine, I start by visiting Puppy Grams and I read a John Maxwell quote, and then I head over to the account of hip hop legend Brandy for my daily dose of inspiration. 

Tom Oh, OK. And you saw this on Brandy's page. 

Kyle Yep. Yeah, that's why I'm buying. 

Tom You're buying a three thousand dollar air fryer that you don't even need because you saw it on Brandy's Instagram page. Well, I mean, that's brand equity for, you. 

Kyle No, Tom. That's Brandy equity. 

Tom I can't. Man that's so, so bad. Why? 

Tom Welcome to Commerce Chefs, a quirky and thought-Provoking show for future focused commerce leaders. We're going to pick the world's most brilliant, inspiring and driven D2C visionaries, the commerce chefs with riveting questions to uncover their secret ingredients at the intersection of passion, performance and leadership and practice. 

Kyle For the past decade, we've led teams of designers, strategists and digital wizards at one of the leading eCom agencies in the country to help brave brands become enduring classics. 

Tom And we're here to indefinitely borrow the strategies and pro tips that will make us all better leaders and make the brands we lead better too. 

Kyle Just sitting up in my room feeling on top of the world. Just another day in paradise Tom. 

Tom Are you just stringing together Brandy song titles, new Marysia? 

Kyle Yeah, no, I'm just back on Brandy's Instagram now. 

Tom I could go for a drink of brandy right now, the way this conversation is going 

Kyle Today, we're diving into brand equity, a.k.a. why all brands are not created equal. 

Tom It might be pretty obvious here, but when we buy, there's always a decision involved, 

Kyle like do I impulse buy that stunning air fryer for all of its crispy goodness? 

Tom Are you still going on about that thing? 

Kyle It's life changing. It's 100 percent worth it. Everyone needs one. Brandy said so Tom. 

Tom OK, ok, I get it. It's hard to argue with a Grammy winning hip hop legend, voice of a generation songbird of our time. 

Kyle Yeah. So brand equity or Brandy equity, as I call it, is why someone like me would choose to pay more money for a thing when someone else has a comparable thing for less. Like why I'm going to buy Brandy's air fryer and not Nickelback's hair fryer. 

Tom I really hope that's an entirely different product. Anyway. It's about building relationships, trust and clarity around what you stand for and what your customers are actually buying. In other words, it's about breaking your product out of being viewed as a commodity and into something more like a symbol. An idea. An aspiration. 

Kyle Exactly. We sat down with Matt Taylor, Director of Consumer insights at Jamison Vitamins, who had a great way of explaining this. Sidebar, you may remember, Matt, from episode seven, The Resurrection of Retail, where we chatted about all things mass CPG. 

Tom Here's what Matt had to say. 

Matt Equity is when somebody enters a category or when they're shopping, equity means that your brand stands out. My simple definition of brand equity is if you're selling a shoe and a commoditized shoe is worth 50 dollars to someone, but someone will pay one hundred dollars for your brand. That difference is brand equity. And equity is the perceived value that you create around your brand or your product. And you can do short term things, tactical sales to get product off the shelf. But at the end of the day, you can't be on sale all year long. And when your competitors are on sale, why is someone why should somebody choose you? Well, they're choosing it because of the equity that you've built in your brand. Cantar is this global research company who has developed a model of brand equity. So they've identified three key parts of brand equity and one is meaningful. Is your brand something that matters to your consumer? Does it fit in their life? Are you dealing with issues that are important to them? Is it different in the fact that, could somebody look at your brand, your product, and understand why it's special from everybody else and that is not a commodity, and then the final one is salience, how easily do you come to mind? But it's not just top of mind awareness so everybody can know about a brand, but it doesn't mean they'll choose them because top of mind awareness doesn't mean that you meet the criteria that consumer's looking for. So the question is, what does someone care about when they're buying shoes? And they might say comfort and flexibility. Then you say, well, what brand comes to mind if you're looking for comfortable, flexible shoes and the brand that comes to mind is Salience. So brand equity is all about understanding your consumers. So you can you can be meaningful to them. You can fit in their life. You can address the goals they're trying to to achieve. You can meet the needs they're trying to meet. And then salient, where you're top of mind when they're shopping in your aisle in retail, your brand pops because their brain is picking up everything in the environment and filtering it through, looking for something that's relevant and meaningful to you. 

Kyle Matt's definition of brand equity really stands out because he mentions it as a way of creating meaning behind the products that you sell. So, Tom, how do you think the psychology of association fits into this? 

Tom We buy to fill a need, but we also buy to feel something. So I think brand equity is about that feeling. The association we have from aligning and owning a piece of that and knowing who your customer is is it's a really overused trope in some ways, but it really stands up here. Some customers are only and always looking for, let's say, the lowest price. And if you're a premium brand or product, then they're really not for you. And I think a good example would be Rolls-Royce. They are synonymous with a level of status and luxury that's nearly unattainable for the vast majority of the planet. So, so much about that brand, though, is irrelevant to me. But they have equity. The visibility and the feeling is undeniable. I understand what Rolls-Royce is and stands for and means, even though I'm far outside of their market. [59.3s] So, Kyle, spring boarding off of that. Matt mentioned that brands need to find out how their products fit into the lives of their customers. So how would you talk about what leaders should do to determine what the right fit is? 

Kyle I think it's always a balancing act. And I was recently listening to the CEO of Cinnabon talk about this-. 

Tom Delicious. 

Kyle Yeah, very delicious. It was it was a hard one to get through without wanting to eat a lot of things. But she was talking about two main buckets that she sees all brands fit into when they're building brand equity, which is you're building in the bucket of relevance in the bucket of differentiation. And really it's about balancing those two. If you're too relevant with no differentiation, then you become a commodity. And if you're too differentiated without enough relevance, then you kind of escape your audience that you're trying to fit. So, I mean, I think it's a bunch of questions in a constant balancing act that every leader needs to do for their brand. And the two questions relating to come out of it for me or who are you trying to be relevant to and understanding really what it is that they want or need. And then number two is what makes you different there now that you found who you want to be relevant to and what are you giving to those people, just like Matt was mentioning about what are you exchanging with them as they purchase a product or service from you? 

Tom Right. And then really, at the end of the day, though, regardless of how hard you try, sometimes the fit just doesn't connect. 

Kyle Yeah. So we asked Steve Miller, who's a branding expert and currently the VP and executive creative director at Fuse Create. And they've worked with iconic brands like Air Miles, Hilton and Canadian Tire. 

Tom Here's what Steve had to say about what happens when fit goes wrong. 

Steve I'll start by saying you can't please all the people all the time, even Amazon can't. You know, I know a lot of people who refuse to buy from Amazon because of all of the waste, because of the environment, because apparently if you return something, it just goes into the garbage. But if you're a brand, you have to know you're not going to please all the people all the time. And, you know, Amazon is there for quick delivery and often for cheap options. Is the experience amazing? No. Is the design of the brand amazing? No, but it means something to people, which is cheap and quick. I think one really great example is Benneton. So they just launched in December their new e-commerce experience or their site. It is content based. It is diversity based. It is personalization based. It's a really fantastic kind of new way to shop. It's not overly novel in terms of breakthrough, but it it is a very modern way of looking at the shopping experience. And for Benneton, which is really all about diversity, it's all about embracing personalization, both from a sort of human standpoint, but also from a fashion standpoint. They have this wonderful way of sort of mixing and matching items from buying a whole look. They weave content like interesting content in and around that particular apparel so that you can learn more about it, so that you can sort of learn other aspects of sort of what into what went into making that apparel. And then you can shop in different ways. So for me, it's a very kind of modern take on Ecom, where it isn't just sort of click and buy and what's quick and what's cheap. It's an experience that is a perfect reflection of Benetton's kind of brand promise with respect to this personalization and diversity and sort of being who you are. And because of the content influence and integration, it's taking what their audience, which is definitely probably millennial and younger, it's taking what their audience is used to. It's taking what their audience wants and what they look to find and what they're interested in so that it's not just a cheap deal you get quickly, but rather an experience that you have with the brand. And it's those experiences that you can have that are going to create an affinity. I think the only affinity we have with Amazon is that, you know, you can get something cheap and quick, but if it went down, you'd probably just go elsewhere. 

Kyle So really what Steve is getting at here is that sometimes your brand won't connect. And if you're doing it right, it shouldn't connect with everyone. 

Tom We all know that you can't be everything to everyone. It's about having a clearly defined audience that resonates with your brand purpose. That may seem like first year marketing, but it really is surprising how many brands know this but don't actually know this about themselves. 

Kyle So once you have an idea who that customer really is, it still takes a lot of factors to create brand equity, creating enough value exchange that matters to them, that pops you out to the commodity zone, which is a great 80s movie title and makes them want to spend more money on you. 

Tom And it's not even just about the money that they spend, but spending more time and personal investment with your brand. Often it's not even about the product that builds that brand equity. It's the experience around the product that does. The unseen hero building staying power in the background. 

Kyle Aaron Powell, the customer service obsessed founder of Bunch Bikes and a successfully funded Shark Tank superstar, had a really great point about this. Aaron's vision and passion for a more sustainable and urban tailored transportation adoption is changing how North Americans get around. And it landed not one, but two sharks as investors. 

Tom Chomp chomp. 

Aaron I like to think of it almost as a concierge experience. There's a great example that the Airbnb guys put out an interview, which is the seven star experience or something like that, where, you know, a five star experience. Somebody's going to give you a five star review. They're going to do that if you delivered everything as expected. Hey, it's a great product. I got it in time. No issues, no frustrations. Five stars, and that's it. But you think beyond that, it's like, OK, what would a six star experience look like for us? It's like, OK, well, what if we promise two weeks and you've got it in four days? For us, it's like the way that we deliver the bike, the rest of the bike industry, the shipping out bikes and parts right there, you have to kind of build it. There's like some assembly required, right? It's like but I look at our product, it's like this is different than a bicycle. It takes us like four to five hours to put one of these things together. Like we're going to ship that to the customer, ask them to do that doesn't make any sense. So we're going to ship these fully assembled, tuned up, ready to go. You open the box. All you have to do is just take it out and you're ready to ride it because all you want to do, you get the bike. All you want to do is ride it right. And so we try to reduce that friction as much as possible. Just you get the bike. There it is. And you right away, you know you're smiles right from the very beginning, and I tell my customer service people, look, when somebody calls on the phone, this is not a call center, your goal is to keep them on the phone as long as possible to satisfy every question or whatever they have. They're the most important thing in the world when they're on that phone with you. I've had conversations with customers that go on an hour and a half and we stop talking about the bike like minute five. And it's taking everything that they say about, hey, well, I think I didn't have a great experience because of this. And it's just apologizing, owning it. Hey, we could do better. And we're going to make sure that we're better about that in the future, you know, and just acknowledging that they have a voice. [00:14:13]Everything that goes in the customer experience is what makes selling high consideration products different from mass retail. Because mass retail, your number one job is to make sure that product is exactly as described. Right. You know, if I get a barbecue sauce, I didn't like the barbecue sauce, I'm not going to go talk to the brand. But when you're selling these things, like the customers, they have more questions. They feel more direct connection to you as a brand and they're going to come to you first and how you handle it when they do come to you. That's everything, because a lot of our best reviews have come from the most upset customers. And it's the way that you turn it around and make it right to them. It's all about customer experience and trust. [39.2s]

Tom You know what this gets me thinking about Kyle? 

Kyle Brandy. 

Tom Nope. Building Trust and community. 

Kyle Oh. Hey, is this a segment break right now? 

Tom It is Kyle. This is Ponder while we wander out yonder! You know something I've been thinking about is this commerce chefs community we're about to launch in the fall? 

Kyle Hmm. The one where brave future focused commerce leaders can dive deeper with us on topics, connect with other founders and trade strategies and pro tips with other D2C leaders? 

Tom Yep, that's the one! With long form interviews, masterminds, ask me anythings, group Slack, behind the scenes, episode and interview transcripts and a whole lot more. And it'll help us all be better leaders and make the brands we lead better too. 

Kyle I mean, I'm just doing it for the LinkedIn connections though. 

Tom Oh, maybe Brandy will connect with you. 

Kyle Don't even! OK. We should tell people to save their spot and join now at commercechefs.com/community

Tom We should tell people to save their spot and join now at commercechefs.com/community. 

Kyle Good pondering, Tom. 

Tom Good wandering Kyle. 

Kyle What's yonder, though? I mean, I haven't left this bathroom office in eighteen months. 

Tom That stinks. And we're back, so what Aaron was really getting at was as a brand, how do you go above what customers expect from you to create something truly magical and meaningful for them? 

Kyle As you mentioned earlier, the experience, the things around the thing can so often be the real and lasting driver to building equity with your customers. 

Tom Aaron continued on this. 

Aaron Number one is that you got to have a product, right? So and I worked for years, iterated, finally got the product market fit I'm really happy with. Right. And the reviews are incredible on it, but that's only half the picture. You know, a bike, there's really nothing proprietary about a bicycle. It can be easily knocked off and somebody can have something similar that does the same thing. Right. To that degree, it's like there's only a limited defense on the product side. The other half of that, those the whole experience around a bicycle, it's not just that moment of purchase and you're using the product and you never have an issue with it. There's things like warranty. Something stops working. You need to get it worked on. OK, what does that experience look like? How are you handling that as a brand? How is the customer being taken care of? It's everything down to freight and delivery and communication and all the things that like, you know, I'm buying this five thousand dollar product. I shouldn't have to lift a finger to have like this perfect experience and have all my needs taken care of. And if you're not doing that, then it's just the customers just let down. And so, so, so much about what I think goes into our brand is it's that we're values driven, right? Like everything we, that comes up, any situation, any new problem or challenge, it's all run through these filters of what are our values and what do we believe in. How do we think that this should be handled? What's going to do right by the customer? Almost like just the golden rule. Right. 

Kyle What's interesting about what Aaron's saying is that so much of Bunch Bike's brand equity has really stemmed from outside of the organization itself. 

Tom Yeah, moms know that Bunch Bikes is great because they've talked to other moms about it. And even if they decided that it wasn't the right product for them, in the end, they're still recommending the company because of the experience they had. So, Kyle, give an example of another maybe larger brand that has great equity with their customer base. What does it represent and how did they create this for themselves? 

Kyle I'll steer away from my go to Allbirds because Tom that's just what I do every time. And I'm going to go back to I was talking about Cinnabon earlier in and going back to the equity that they built and kind of knowing who they are and what they stand for. And I think that's a really great example. If you look at their history of how they understood that their mission really was about taking a moment to indulge and kind of said, if you're going to be bad, you have a moment indulge it. And make it worth it. What they've done is made it really clear what they are, what they stand for, and then went about leveraging that as they would go into different channels or different even collaborations with other brands. And so I think that's what so many brands don't really understand, is they don't know what bank account they're drawing on in the first place when it comes to understanding who they are, what they stand for and what that means to the people that that they're serving. But I wonder, Tom, thinking of Cinnabon, the multibillion dollar company, does it change when things go to a smaller company like Bunch Bikes? 

Tom I don't think it does. I think the principles remain the same. They're just at a different scale. Well, in fact, I guess in some ways, being smaller, being a smaller brand probably has an advantage. You're able to be more agile. You have a better ability to connect one on one with customers and staff in a meaningful way and make the choice to start there and focus on that at the core of building your equity. But no, I don't think that that the difference is there. I think those principles are those principles. 

Kyle Well, speaking of that, Matt Taylor explored further in this vein how founders, particularly when they're in the thick of it as a growing brand, can really add big impact here. 

Matt And then the further you get away from the founder, the more difficult it is to understand and participate in the culture. And so this need to have people on your team who get it, who live it, or you can learn from them. There's the need to have an insights team and it's somebody who can be the voice of that culture and that consumer so that you can get it. Because I've been part of the founder based companies and the instinct that's in the building is just things work. But as soon as the founder leaves you, you just have to do things differently. And so that the advantage of a startup with the advantage of a small business is that you probably understand it and go with your gut who you're serving, maybe someone like you, maybe not like figure that out, but then design stuff that you and your friends and your your acquaintances like and then see what works because you probably were born out of that culture or your business was probably born out of a culture. And so [00:21:18]I think about marketing as becoming part of or serving a culture as a product or brand. You are in a category that is ultimately inside of a culture, and culture is a collection of shared meanings and beliefs. So in our world, we're in the culture of natural health. Another business might be in the culture of entrepreneurship. So inside of that culture, who are those who are driving change? Who are those who are looking for a solution? And if you design your retail brand or your your brand or your e-commerce site to serve that core culture with amazing content with the things they want to hear about. And then the next layer, those who want to be part of the culture but are not the driving force of the culture. And it starts to spread that way. [44.9s] But it all comes down to what's shared beliefs you have with your consumer, what is culturally relevant to them, what tensions do they have in their life? Why would they participate in this in this thing of life with you being authentic to that? And that's how things start to grow. But you've got to fire and figure out what culture you're serving and what content can you produce for that culture, because price and convenience, you're probably not going to win that battle. 

Tom This really comes down to understanding the cultural influences of your customer and what you're providing to that person or culture, the exchange that's happening between you and the community and customers you're seeking to serve, 

Kyle When a brand can get a handle on that. It can position its messaging and everything about its focus and customer experience in a way that speaks to those influences and better connects with customers and what they're actually seeking. 

Tom Here's what Steve had to say about this. 

Steve The impact that that branding can have it can give you comfort, it can give you assurance, it can reduce your risk. It can do all of those things in a purchase decision. And it is so personal, you know, again, it's just so personal what brands mean to certain people and when a brand can establish itself with that audience or with that person in a way that will make them feel comfort or proud or sexy, whatever it is, then the brand has done its job. But again, like brands are going to have different positioning. [00:23:29]A brand's purpose is so important to establish in the first place. But many entrepreneurs, many small business business owners, won't think through that purpose. They'll have a logo. They may even have a tag line, but they don't really have that that purpose behind their brand and what their brand stands for. It's that brand purpose and brand promise that is so important because that's what everything ladders up to. And as a brand, whether it's your website or your web copy or your logo or the bag that you leave with or your social content, it all has to echo that that purpose so that me as a consumer, I understand what your brand is about. And if that understanding and if your purpose means something to me, then I'm immediately already drawn to what you offer and whatever that offer might be, [49.8s] a product or service. Like look at Starbucks from years ago. They're offering everything under the sun. They started with coffee and they have just branched out. Same with Apple. From a computer to basically everything in your home. You trust their brand purpose and you trust what they're about, no matter what they make. 

Tom Steve makes an interesting point about the image of a brand and what it signals to customers. Kind of running along with this Kyle. How can partnerships signal different things and aid in a brand's image, i.e., Apple and Hermes partnering? 

Kyle I think equity by association is a real, real powerful driver. And I like to look at it like this as if you go back to your you know, as a kid, I don't know if your parents said this to you, but you're you are your closest five friends. And I think that can go both ways. Right. But if you really think about that in the brand world too you become who those people that you associate with influence, you and by extension, those in your community or your culture will see you through the lens if you're connected to and what they represent and what they value. So I think it's a really important and powerful thing to consider. What is that equity by association and who are those close five friends and Tom you're one of those.

Tom Oh thanks buddy. I think you're my only friend.

Kyle You know at this point I think that's how it is. How do partnerships  though, think about this- how do partnerships communicate the experience that customers will receive? 

Tom Well, I think this touches a little bit on semiotics. What does this brand partnership signal in terms of what's shared between them? And that can be values, quality, customers, experience, perception and status, or even just the overall feeling. And Stephen Covey, I think, touched on this a little bit with this brilliant math equation of one plus one equals three. And essentially what this is looking at is that when you have this this match in equity brand equity, the reach that you can have is exponential. The impact that you have on the other side of that equation is exponential 

Kyle and not all partnerships necessarily need to be with other brands. 

Tom That's right. Actually, Aaron talked about this around partnerships with his customers. 

Aaron In the beginning, it's been community and customer to customer, grassroots, word of mouth. Every one of these customers, those initial customers were people just like me who are so excited to finally have found this thing and just promoting on Instagram or wherever, that they became like the most excited people. Right. And they're like the early adopters. They're going to buy it, you know, and they're going to wait six months to get it in. They're going to put their money down and then they're going to take a chance on a company that never heard of because they're so into the idea, then it's like a very visible thing, too, because even down to the branding, I intentionally put this, like, big logo like on the side of the bike just because the rolling billboard, you ride it around your neighborhood, people see it. And what I learned from my own personal experience riding around is that I couldn't get this bike down the street without somebody stopping me wanting to talk about it. I'd go downtown. People would be asking me if they could take pictures and put them on Instagram and like there's something special here. And that same experience is being played out day after day with all of our new customers where it's just like it's just getting enough bikes out there into the wild to where it's just catching on organically. If somebody was in Denver and wanted to buy a bike was like, well, we don't have any like I'd go like, you know, go through the customer list on Shopify, OK, who's in Denver? And I would literally just like text or send an email is like, hey, I've got somebody in your area that would like we'd love to try this. And 19 times out of 20, they'd be like, oh my gosh, yeah, please put them in contact with me. I'd love to tell them more like they were so open to it, like moms meeting up with moms in parks like it was they were just kind of unofficially doing it. And then it comes down to authenticity and trust, too, because other companies have what they call an ambassador program, which is kind of different than what we're doing, which is basically we're going to give you free product and swag and you're going to post on your Instagram. And everyone knows that you didn't pay for this and they know that you're just promoting it and showing the company. And so it's like the people that are sharing on social media and stuff for us, like it's very much authentic. Even when we do kind of such partnerships with influencers or whatever, it's almost always like they'd almost be willing to pay for the product. And sometimes they even are just they're just so excited about it. They just they just want to it comes across very authentic because they're actually using it on a daily basis. Right. It's not just something they got for free because they could. And I tend to stay away from people like that that are just looking for a handout. Right. 

Kyle If you're trying to be a mass commodity product where the lowest price is the law or the interchangeable air fryer, then be that but know what game you're in and spoiler alert, it's a tough one featuring competition like Amazon, Wal-Mart and all your other dropshipping friends. 

Tom It's not that it isn't a game you can play, but the game that you're likely in? If you're listening to this podcast and these guys is that of breaking out of the commodity game and breaking into the world of meaningful value exchange with your customers. 

Kyle In other words, the social, personal community value that I receive as a customer from the exchange is worth or exceeds the monetary value that I'm giving. That's what makes me choose to give more in order to receive more. 

Tom And let's not forget the emotional value, the feelings that come along with associating and participating with a brand that aligns on all of these fronts. 

Kyle So go the other way to what the big guys are doing and don't get lost in the ether. Don't be a bland brand that is interchangeable with perceived competitors or comparable alternatives. 

Tom Be a brand that strives to be irreplaceable in terms of what you actually offer to your customers. And so often what you actually offer isn't the function of the product, but rather the confidence in the consistency of social value, connection and community that you can deliver. 

Kyle And the brands that do this ensure staying power and enviable visibility. Brands that command drive the value conversation, pricing, connection, community and a following that's predicated on more than just pricing convenience, 

Tom All things equal, to get somebody to spend more on you. That's brand equity. And that's what allows a brand to command. 

Tom And there you have it, that's episode 10 of Commerce Chefs. Thanks so much for listening. 

Kyle We hope you gain some insight and perspective on meaningful value exchange and how to carve a path there through brand equity. 

Tom And if you're looking for even more insights and recipes for success, make sure to follow us on social @CommerceChefs. 

Kyle And remember to join the Commerce Chefs community launching this fall. 

Tom Mm hmm. Save your spot and join now at CommerceChefs.com/Community. 

Kyle In the meantime, we're currently cooking up the next episode of Commerce Chefs. So tune in on June 10th, as you always say Tom, feed your mind with your ears. They're the other mouth of your head. 

Tom My ears thank you, sir. And lastly, if you liked this episode and you want to support us, you know, you want to- make sure to hit the subscribe button and leave us a five star rating and review. Until next time this has been a dash of Tom

Kyle And a pinch of Kyle. We'll be cooking with you in two weeks. 

Tom So I'm starting a shipping company for cats, it's called Purrulator, and it's going to be lovely, 

Kyle Just a bonus episode where Tom reads brand names, just the brand names in Moira's voice.