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Although the future will always be uncertain, as leaders, we try our best to understand what’s on the horizon. As commerce continues to rapidly shift into digital, what are the key elements that we need to keep our eyes on? In this episode of Commerce Chefs, Kyle and Tom sit down to give you all the answers you’ve been dying to know. They discuss the importance of community, what personalization actually means, how to bring more joy and humanity into online experiences, and the need for businesses to have a positive social impact. Plus, an appearance is made from producer Julia, who’s always setting the team up for success… except when she forgets to book us guests.

TRANSCRIPT

Tom Hey, hey, buddy, how are you doing? 

Kyle Hey, thanks for talking through the tough stuff last night. It really meant a lot to have someone to go to and no judgment, no agenda. 

Tom Hey, don't mention it, Kyle. What are friends and co-founders for, right? Look, I know how hard it can be to choose between two of your favorite ice cream flavors. 

Kyle Yeah. 

Tom No one should have to do that alone. 

Kyle Thank you. Thank you, Tom. 

Tom No problem. OK, ready to get started, everybody? Hey are our guests all here, Julia? Oh wise and wonderful producer?

Julia Hey, guys. So slight change of plans. 

Tom OK. 

Julia There are no guests. 

Tom Right? COO, coo, coo, coo, coo, OK, um. 

Julia So sorry guys. Good luck though. 

Kyle OK, OK, OK, OK, OK. 

Julia OK, everyone we'll start recording in 30 seconds. 

Kyle Oh no. Oh no. Oh no. Oh no. Oh no. Oh no. Oh no. 

Tom Julia, I think you broke Kyle. OK, ok. No problem. Um. Oh what if we just awkwardly came up with a list of topics that are on our minds. 

Kyle Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's just do that. Let's just dive deeper into my crippling inability to improvise on the spot. Sure. Sounds great. Sounds great, Tom. 

Tom Yeah. 

Tom Welcome to Commerce Chefs, a quirky and thought-provoking show for future focused commerce leaders. We're going to pit the world's most brilliant, inspiring and driven D2C visionaries, the commerce chefs with riveting questions to uncover their secret ingredients at the intersection of passion, performance and leadership in practice. 

Kyle For the past decade, we've led teams of designers, strategists and digital wizards at one of the leading ecomm agencies in the country to help brave brands become enduring classics. 

Tom And we're here to indefinitely borrow the strategies and pro tips that will make us all better leaders and make the brands we lead better too. 

Kyle I wish I could indefinitely borrow a guest right now. 

Tom I mean, I could be a guest on the show. Hey, if a co-host hosts the podcast alone in the forest, are they the hosts or the guest? 

Kyle I'm confused. 

Tom Me, too. All right, so e commerce and D2C sales have grown the equivalent of 10 years over the past 12 months, and this is not slowing down. 

Kyle It's moving faster than we're used to, maybe even faster than we're ready for. 

Tom And when I think about growing quickly, I think about that awkward time in grade nine after my growth spurt, you know, 

Kyle You had a growth spurt, but you're still as tall as I was in grade nine.

Tom Kyle, no one needed to know that it's a podcast. I get to be as tall as I want. I get to be as tall as I sound. 

Kyle Right, right, right, right, right. Well, Tom, to me, you are like a tall tree in a forest where there's a podcast host hosting alone as a guest. 

Tom Now I'm confused. So let's look at where things could be, but also let's look at where things should be in the coming years, which could still feel like a decade if things keep this pace. Hashtag time travel. 

Kyle We've outgrown our awkward Randy River tween clothing and the choice is ours for our new wardrobe. So what should we choose? 

Tom I'm not quite sure how we landed on this metaphor, but let's run with it. Our new wardrobe should be filled with things that will stand the test of time, things that will look good in more than six months from now. Classics, not trends. 

Kyle We need to outfit our brands with intention. It's time to get things tailored to look good, to fit well, to coordinate and be poised to become enduring classics. 

Tom That's a good line. Yeah. So since we have no guests, let's pull a cue from today's Click Baity news machine and discuss the 

Kyle seven and a half things you're not thinking about in a future of commerce or or maybe you are. And this is just a really good refresher. 

Tom What's the half thing? 

Kyle You just wait. 

Tom You don't know yet, do you know? 

Kyle No, I don't. 

Tom In other words, let's yammer together awkwardly, like only we can do. And here we go. 

Kyle All right. So the first thing that we want to look at as we head into the next few years of commerce Tom: community, I heard this in the past couple of weeks thinking of D2C as opposed to direct to consumer as maybe we started thinking about as direct to community. 

Tom Tell me more. 

Kyle Well, I think we started seeing, you know, with influencers many years ago, this this coming to pass. But now the shift more into like micro influencers and friend communities and thinking that in a way, it's not just about building an audience. [00:05:17]You know, we think often, hey, I built in a social following or like a LinkedIn following, and that's not really a community as much as it's an audience. And thinking about as we're actually going deeper in communities and in communities it's about relationship, shared values, beliefs. It's not just passive following. And when we're selling into those things, the way that those communities influence each other, the way that they share values and beliefs is actually what you're selling into. You're not just selling kind of one to one. You're selling now almost in ways one to many. [32.6s]

Tom Interesting. So because I love food is another way to look at this really like it's not as much about how many people live on your street, but who's going to come over to your barbecue if you invite them? Who knows you, who knows your name, your kids, is that what we're talking about we're talking about engagement?

Kyle Yeah. And who's going to bring ambrosia when you ask them to bring it? 

Tom I don't even know what that is, but it sounds gross. 

Kyle Yes, it is gross. 

Tom So what am I not thinking about then? I'm I'm a I'm a brand leader. I've got a D2C brand. What am I not thinking about when it comes to community? 

Kyle I think the simple way to put it is community, which is really important to the future is much more than your social media following. So start thinking, what does that look like beyond just accruing neighbors and what does it look like to find people that are actually going to come to your barbecue and bring ambrosia, 

Tom put another shrimp on the barbie? All right. So this touches on something then for me, obviously, community is is huge. It's really something we're seeing as playing is important. But it does come in tension with something that I want to talk about. Number two, personalization. If you're not thinking about this, you need to be. [00:07:10]There is, I believe, a need for more humanity in the digital. And when I talk about personalization or what I see for personalization in playing an important role, this ain't just about a name and an email [13.9s] or I think you said something about engraved products. 

Kyle Oh, yeah. So what, you're an. You're not talking about getting like a pen engraved with my name on it, because I would really appreciate that for my birthday Tom. 

Tom I'm not, it's a different kind of click bait. No, [00:07:42]I'm talking about as D2C brands, really focusing in on trying to mimic the human experience. Picture yourself with me right now. Going into a retail store, you get greeted, you get to talk with and maybe work with somebody to create products, give you suggestions, offer you help as you go there more often. So when we're talking about building relationships with brands and with customers, you know, they get to know you. They get to know your name, what colors you like, your style, what you have already, what you were looking at last time, but didn't end up going for, you know, so personalization. I am talking about dynamic content, dynamic merchandizing, real time buyer lifecycle awareness. [45.0s]

Kyle A lot of what you're saying is kind of personalization is a lot more about empathy and connection than it is about getting someone's name customized in their email. 

Tom Absolutely. 

Kyle There was a really practical example that came up in one of the interviews we're doing for the show, actually was we were talking about the United Colors of Benetton on their new website, and they've got a bunch of aspects to their their new site, which is the one thing I thought was really intriguing, was even had like a weather curator where you could, like, turn on the weather. 

Tom Yes. 

Kyle Based on your location. And it would rework the site and the products based on the weather that's occurring in your world. And I was like, that's like brilliant way to deal with clothing or the other one I was thinking about was, you know, we've all seen our friends on Instagram posting their their virtual glasses, and-  Warby Parker, if you're looking for some and use my affiliate code, I'm just kidding, OK. But the idea this goes back to community, right, is the personalization is it's not just me trying it on in terms of AR, but I'm able to like engage that with my community and it feels personal to me. I feel like we're experiencing this purchasing process in a totally personal way that helps me understand if these glasses are going to make me feel good, if they're going to make me give you have the confidence or whatever I'm looking for from that product, not just does it fit on my face. 

Tom [00:09:49]So as a as a D2C brand, what I think we're not thinking about in the future here is that personalization is not about a name or a personalized text or email. This is about truly and deeply dynamic content. It's about mimicking the human experience and it's about understanding where your customer is at in their life cycle, in their geography. This is about being dynamic. [24.1s]

Kyle Love it. OK, the next thing we want to talk about as you're packing your proverbial bags for the future of commerce is customer service and respect. 

Tom R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Yeah. 

Kyle I knew you were going to do that. I knew it. It's not even scripted. And it's there. 

Tom There we are. 

Kyle Tell us more. 

Tom Look, we go into this in depth in episode four the CX episode. But I think we just have this belief, Kyle, that we need to stop this obsession with conversion at all costs. What do we got to do to get that conversion rate up, we need to really get obsessed with service and respect. 

Kyle I think that's a really good point right is reframing what ROI looks like, shifting that spend in investing in customer experience and not saying you don't need to do some of the acquisition. Of course, that's part of the game. But investing in a customer service, investing into the customer experience pays dividends in the long term. It starts to look at things like lifetime value, which we all know is the golden thing we're chasing not just the cost per acquisition or just the cost or the value of the cart. 

Tom And anything that we can do as a brand as we move into the future to invest into customer service is going to pay dividends. I'm going to put a Tom Colver guarantee on that. So what are D2C brands not thinking about then in the space of customer service? I think our feeling is that being direct to consumer, having a site and a sales channel that is digitally based, this is not an excuse to pull away and become some detached sales machine. And so many D2C brands do this. But I think the ones that are going to have staying power are the ones that are going to flourish into the future. Are the brands that recognize the direct to consumer digital channel is an opportunity to amplify human interaction and joy at scale. 

Kyle OK, speaking of joy at scale, we recently talked about soul at scale, see where I'm going? And the next segment to talk about, number four on our extensive list of seven and a half things. Sustainability, which comes out a lot in the episode about scaling with soul, and it tries to ask this question of what is it to be the best for the world, not just the best in the world at something. And that requires us to look beyond just profit and loss. I mean, obviously, that's important. Like, we're not saying capitalism, commerce is going away, but what does it look like in the future? Probably is, you know, what is best for the world, not what's best in the world. 

Tom Yeah, because here's a fun fact for everybody. It's pretty hard to have a business without a planet. 

Kyle Spoiler alert right there. 

Tom Spoiler spoiler alert. I think I'm encouraged to see this this movement toward sustainability, this acknowledgment in the commerce world that there is a part to play and a responsibility to sustainability. But it isn't just as simple as your carbon footprint or recycled packaging. I mean, sustainability truly touches on everything. It's about your employees, your supply chain, production materials, everything. So, Kyle, what am I not thinking about then as a D2C brand when it comes to sustainability? 

Kyle All right. You ready for this? 

Tom Only always. 

Kyle It's not just about carbon neutral. It's about being carbon negative. This challenged me I know  we talked about this concept because I think we've been so long striving as companies to to look at carbon neutral. And Tom, tell us just a little bit more what's like a carbon negative approach. 

Tom So a carbon negative approach would be not just to look at offsetting the carbon impact, for instance, and carbon, look, carbon is great to to offset it, but it is really only one thing. But if we were just looking at that one dynamic. It's not enough to just offset the impact you've had, but to actually make it better than it was before. 

Newscaster Tom We interrupt this episode with a breaking news story coming to you live from the office of the commerce chefs. Over to you, Kyle. 

Newscaster Kyle Thanks, Tom. We're having a developing news story that is sure to give you a listening break from this podcast episode in which you are listening to. We're just getting news that you might be tired of listening to us. So we're providing the back half of this episode in Fast Forward. 

Newscaster Tom Thrilling. And here we go. 

Newscaster Tom And there you have it. Now back to the remainder of episode nine of our Commerce Chefs at regular speed. 

Kyle Couldn't we just have played some nice, soothing Kanye to give everybody a break? 

Tom We all need a break from Kanye. Give it a west, Kyle. Give it a west. 

Kyle This is going south fast 

Tom and we're back. So up next, numero five leaving it better than when you found it. And what's better than accessibility and equity? 

Kyle [00:15:42]Particularly, I know you and I chat about this a lot, and accessible work or accessible design is good design it's something we talk about in the team a lot. And I think what we're seeing is, of course, a social issue around equity and accessibility in a few different ways brought to the forefront. The thing to also take with that is this idea that, you know, accessible design or equitable design is good design. And think about design in a broader sense, not just in terms of, say, your website or your branding, but the design of your customer experience, the design of your product, the design of your culture. And if we look at that and we can kind of see the different blind spots that, you know, we weren't seeing, that's really what accessibility and equity can bring to the table for businesses. [49.0s]

Tom That's huge. It's something that that is even being more, more and more mandated legally to be a consideration. But we're not talking about accessibility as just that front end browser accessibility, compliance that needs to be done here. So if that's typically what's being assumed of that term, then Kyle, as a D2C brand, what am I not thinking about when it comes to accessibility and equity? 

Kyle [00:16:58]I'll put it like this. More equitable, more accessible thinking isn't just a checklist or legality or an important thing that you got to check off. It actually creates better products and better experiences from. [13.6s] All right. We talked about sustainability. We talked about accessibility, equity, which roll up into number six, which is social impact through business. What's going on here, Tom? 

Tom This is about alignment of dollars to values. So customers being more and more aware and intent on spending into things, into companies and on things, on products that are aligned to their values. There is an understanding that, you know, you have to give to get, again, an encouraging trend. But I think customers are seeing more and more that, yes, I can pay you my dollars to get this thing that I want. But the other thing is happening now more and more, is that they're realizing that they're getting impact from that spend. They're seeing results that align with values. They're they're looking at a cause. So really, it's a two for one deal. And who doesn't love a good deal? 

Kyle I think another spoiler alert here, Tom, is gone are the era or are gone are the days when you can just slap that on and hope that that is what garners your customer base. I think the big thing is we also need to maintain the quality of product. You actually still need to be offering a product that solves a pain point or offers a unique experience to that community or to that person. And it's kind of a both and era that we're in as you can't just slap it on and hope that that's like your big marketing strategy. So what is it that as a D2C brand not thinking about? 

Tom I'd like to believe, you know, a lot of brands are starting to or are looking at social impact as a big part of their business and their operations. So I think the thing that these D2C brands maybe aren't thinking about is the pace at which this needs to be at the forefront. You may have a giving program or section on your about page, but this needs to move faster. It needs to be woven into the fabric of your brand and brought to the forefront way quicker than I think we all realize. 

Kyle Love it. No.7,. 

Tom No.7! 

Kyle Fun and joy! What is on your mind with fun and joy my friend?

Tom I'm going to put myself out. I'm going to say this, [00:19:34]I think fun and joy, both as words and as practices, can be seen as something that maybe has no place in business. But I think that's absolute B.S.. Joy isn't about the purchase journey. So let's let's stop talking about sales for a minute here. They're going to happen. The more we can inject fun, the more we can consider joy. I think the better things will be. But, you know, we buy to feel we to feel something to belong, to identify, to align with. That's why we buy. So let's evoke the right things. Let's do that for the right reasons. We we don't have to take ourselves so seriously. [39.0s] Kyle, if you and I are any example, we can be very good at what we do and still be fun and enjoyable to be around or to listen to. 

Kyle I take this show very seriously, Tom, and I don't know what you're talking about. 

Tom Sorry, we should probably talk about that later. 

Kyle Yeah, we should. 

Tom But you have a beautiful perspective on this, and I want you to talk about that. 

Kyle Well, thank you. I think often as brands or as companies, we think, OK, well, I can't be fun. I can't be joy that doesn't fit into either our constraints as a budget or constraints as a brand. But I just wanted to share with you something I shared with our team a couple of weeks ago, which is that joy is a perspective. It doesn't know a size. It doesn't know a particular set of constraints, but it's more of how you approach what's in front of you. The example I've been touting around is Joy is Disney World. It's it's all those things and it's big movies that you go. And it's the magical moments, the experience. But Joy is also like a bunch of Tupperware when you're a kid and it's a big field of grass where you just go and kick a ball around like it. It's Disney World and it's also a field of grass. Like if we can take that and understand that, you know, maybe we can learn something from when we were kids, where joy actually really was an approach or a way to come towards a situation, to find surprise, to find delight. And if we can create that in whatever's in front of us, no matter what the constraints of your brand or your budget, whatever it is from the smallest to the largest joy can happen. 

Tom Joy should happen. 

Kyle It should happen. So what is it about fun and joy that I'm not thinking about as a D2C brand? 

Tom It's probably something along the lines of just needing to connect more to your eight year old self and separate yourself for a minute from this transactional space of e-commerce and just dream. What if? How could it be better? Just have more fun that it will yield good and that's sometimes the best thing that we can do. OK, so we've done our we've done our seven. Now we're on to the the half thing, seven point five. Kyle Yeah. Let's hear it. 

Kyle What's a half thing. 

Tom But what you were supposed to prep that. 

Kyle Oh what. 

Tom Oh, OK. All right. Well I have an idea. 

Kyle OK, all right. 

Tom Braver partnerships. 

Kyle Nice. See, that's a good half thing because it's kind of like a pitch to work with us, right at PB&J? 

Tom Well, well, kind of I guess. Yes. Braver, braver partnerships with partners. But but I was actually meaning braver partnerships between brands, I don't mean just partnerships with the experts that you work with, like PB&J, for instance, what I think D2C brands are maybe not thinking about number seven point five is brand to brand partnerships. I believe that the future is less about competition and more about collaboration and that this this space is not a zero sum game. And the sooner the brands can understand their purpose, what they're good at, who they're for, what problem and pain they're seeking to serve. Then they're more inclined to look around them then and say, OK, but what other companies, what other brands or products are out there that are trying to help the same people I am? And how can we leverage our strengths? And let's tie it right back to the beginning here with community. How can we better build a stronger community together instead of looking to divide and conquer 

Kyle or in the words of the always wise Michael Scott or maybe Stephen Covey, I'm not sure. But look for a win win win situations. Did I do it? It's good? 

Tom You did it. 

Kyle Yeah, I didn't know where those high school improv classes would come in handy or trigonometry, come to think of it. But I guess now we know talking on the spot is a pinch of stressful Tom. 

Tom I wonder how our guests feel then. 

Kyle Oh, they love it. And I'm a co-host that's out of the woods now. Did I get the joke? 

Tom If a co-host is out of the woods and nobody was around to hear their podcast, did it ever even happen? Anyway, I think you did great, Kyle. 

Kyle We covered a lot today. Each of these worth their own episode, some of which we've covered in detail in past commerce episodes and some that we'll cover further in season two. 

Tom Maybe you found these insightful, maybe you've been challenged or inspired. Maybe you feel overwhelmed and maybe you're choosing to put a lot of this aside. 

Kyle But one thing is for sure, these are unignorable elements that will drive the future of commerce, especially in ecomm. 

Tom And the sooner that we get on board and invest into these things, the sooner our brands will thrive, be more resilient and future proofed and the sooner we can all drive positive change together. 

Kyle Packaged up all nice and neat so you can take it with you in a proverbial doggy bag, here's what we covered: firstly, community. It's more than just your social following. It's about building real connections and real relationships. Also, it's time to start thinking of D2C as direct to community. 

Tom Personalization: mimic the human experience and work to create dynamic, curated moments of genuine interaction. 

Kyle Customer service: D2C is not an excuse to pull away into a detached sales machine. It's an opportunity to amplify human interaction and joy at scale. 

Tom Sustainability: carbon neutral is fantastic, but let's push past that and let's leave things better, not just neutral. 

Kyle Accessibility and equity: it's not just a checklist. More equitable thinking creates better products and better experiences for the world. 

Tom Social impact: push the pace at which your social impact is at the core and forefront of your brand. 

Kyle Fun and joy: dream more, have more fun and start thinking a little more like your eight year old self. 

Tom And lastly, braver partnerships: the future is less about competition and more about collaboration. Align with other brands and work together to build worthwhile communities in which you can flourish together. 

Kyle Someone call BuzzFeed because that's a list! Seven and a half key elements that will play a huge role in the future of successful D2C brands. 

Tom But what's important to you? What do your customers and community need? Fast forward with us. What kind of future do you want to see? 

Kyle The decisions, the actions and the investments you make today, are what's going to make that future a reality. 

Tom So don't put it off. Go forward and make that future happen fast. 

Kyle There you have it. That's episode nine of Commerce Chefs. Thanks so much for listening. 

Tom We hope you've gained some insight and perspective on some important and fast moving considerations that might be worth holding on to as you journey into the future of ecomm. 

Kyle If you're looking for even more insights and recipes for success, make sure to join the Commerce Chefs community by following us on social @commercechefs. 

Tom Hold up, Kyle, didn't you just say that a social following wasn't a real community? 

Kyle Yep. Yes, I did. Which is why we're launching an actual community in the fall where you brave, future focused commerce leader can dive even deeper with us and connect with other founders and D2C leaders. 

Tom The Kitchen launches this fall and we're stuffing it with long form interviews, masterminds, Ask Me Anythings, group Slack, Behind the scenes episode and interview transcripts 

Kyle and a whole lot more to help us all become better leaders and make the brands we lead better too. Save your spot and join now cat commercechefs.com/community. 

Tom In the meantime, we're currently cooking up the next episode of Commerce Chefs, so tune in on May 27th. As I always say, feed your mind with your ears they're the other mouth of your head. 

Kyle Always a lovely visual, Tom. Lastly, if you liked this episode and want to support us, you know, you want to make sure to hit the subscribe button and leave us a five star rating and review. Until next time. This has been a pinch of Kyle 

Tom and a dash of Tom. We'll be cooking with you in two weeks. 

Britt OK, do you have your ohs in place Kyle? Or your OKs? Someplace else or your own place? Well, not just here, but until. 

Kyle OK, ok. Oh oh no. Oh oh oh 

Julia Oh my god. You sound like the guy. The Mad Hatter. 

Tom Yeah. 

Kyle Oh, nooooo stop it!